July 18 re-launch on Matt.org site

Attention, Readers! Re-think Immigration is moving to its new home tomorrow, Wednesday, July 18. Click here to go to the new website. It is functionally identical to this one except that all past comments will stay archived at this website. Comments to new posts should be posted at the new site and will require a quick, painless sign-up process so that everyone has their own unique username.

Monday, July 2, 2007

Q&A: Common misconceptions about immigrants

We spoke to Shuya Ohno, who works with the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition (MIRA), about stereotypes regarding immigrants to the United States.

Q: What is one of the greatest misconceptions Americans harbor regarding immigration?

A: I think a lot of people think they take away our jobs. The truth is that at every sector in the economy, we need more immigrants to fill jobs. We know about the agriculture sector, but it’s also construction, and other low-wage jobs. The reason there are so many low-wage jobs open right now is because over the last fifty years, the education level of the American worker has changed; [whereas] fifty years ago about 50% had graduated from high school, now it’s over 80%. The economy reflects that with higher-paying jobs that require college degrees. That doesn’t mean that janitorial and food preparation services have gone away—those jobs still need to be filled. In fact, they need to be filled more so now because there are more people in the country. Studies show that areas with the highest number of immigrants have fairly low or some of the lowest unemployment rates.

Q: Let’s talk about the widespread notion that illegal immigrants choose to be illegal rather than legal in this country.

A: Of course, if they could come in legally they would, but that option doesn’t exist. You have to understand it’s not an easy choice to make to cross the desert, especially with young ones, risking your life. They are fleeing economic and political devastation and persecution. They want a better life just as all generations of immigrants to the U.S. have wanted. If they could come in legally, they would. If the Ellis Island system would stlill exist, all these people would absolutely have legal status.

Q: Misconceptions regarding assimilation are rampant, aren’t they?

A: Yes, another great misconception is that they don’t want to learn English, assimilate, and be Americans. This is simply not true. There’s huge waiting lists all over the country, especially in metropolitan areas, for ESL [English as a Second Language] classes. People want to learn English as it’s critically important. It’s not that people don’t’ want to, it’s that there’s not enough services for them. In every wave of immigration to this country, this is always an attack: newcomers don’t want to assimilate. But by the second generation, their kids are bilingual; by the third, English is the primary language. This was true of Italians, Germans, and absolutely true of Spanish-speaking immigrants today.

Q: What about immigrants and health care?

A: People think immigrants are taking up all the room in the ERs and getting benefits US citizens don’t. The federal government basically is allowing K-12 education for anybody living in the country. It’s good for everyone to keep kids schools. Similarly, ER care should be available for everyone, so this is why immigrants are allowed there regardless of their immigration status. This is misleading in a way because most undocumented immigrants get no public benefits, no welfare, no food stamps—they certainly don’t get health care (no preventative or pre-natal care) so they rely on emrgency care. The use of ER services by undocumented immigrants is very small compared to the per capita use by the general population. Most of the undocumented population are healthy, working age people and they’re working most of the time. They can’t afford not to work. One of the most ridiculous things I ever heard was a Massachusetts state legislator say that immigrants bring in diseases. I don’t want to dignify that with further comment. It’s just absurd.

Q: What of the idea that immigrants don’t pay taxes?

A: [The] former chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, said that immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—pay more than their fair share in taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay federal income tax but don’t get any of the benefits a regular tax payer does. These people don’t get tax refunds nor are they granted welfare, food stamps, and other federal benefits.

*Please note!* In the coming weeks, we plan to ask similar questions to a member of an anti-immigration group, as well as other stakeholders such as politicians, immigrants, and more. If you have any specific people in mind, drop us a line.

(This is today's last post.)

120 comments:

Anonymous said...

While it's true that many undocumented immigrants do pay taxes, I feel as though I wouldn't be wrong in sayin gthat the majority don't. Unfortunately for these well-meaning illegals, the majority of their lot are fine with doing absolutely everything under the table... as if being illegal wasn't enough

ultima said...

Where's the proof these are misconceptions? What studies have been done to support the contentions of the interviewee? ER care is the most expensive kind there is so no one is doing us a favor by using only the ERs. Why not require employers of foreign workers to be responsible for their health care costs? That might have some impact on their willingness to hire them in the first place. Why should the taxpayers or other insurers have to pick up the tab?
Where is the support for the contention that there is an insufficient supply of labor? Not just opinion but facts? How many employers have extended their recruiting to the inner cities, the disabled and those on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder? We need hard facts on which to base a more precise balancing of immigrants with jobs Americans can't fill.

ultima said...

It seems to me an advocacy group is the worst possible source for answers to these questions. What can one expect from them except a tired rendition of what they characterize as myths. First hand observation tells me that illegals have displaced American workers well before the boomers hit retirement. You can see it in the change in the roofing, painitng and constructions businesses . In my neighborhood employees went from al anglo to all Mexican in a matter of a few years. I don't believe the anglos all got college degrees during this period nor did they retire. Someone is distorting the facts.

Anonymous said...

Ultima,

It appears that the blog will be interviewing various people on the subject and that this advocacy group member is just the first installment. As is usual, Q&As show opinion, and we as readers make waht we will of it, as an opinion, and not as fact.

Nevertheless, I agree with Mr Ohno that there are many misconceptions re: immigrants in America. For one, I don't think many (any?) people know that many undocumented workers are issued tax identification numbers to pay taxes (in lieu of a SSN)...

Anonymous said...

Sorry I submitted my comment before I was done.

Also, why deny children of undocumented immigrants an education? Must they suffer a life "under the table" simply because their parents made an illegal decision to move to the USA?

And do we really want to leave sick undocumented workers on the street?

Compassionate conservatives, my ass.

Anonymous said...

How can any of you even deny that these misconceptions don't exist? They permeate FOX News -- "Illegal immigrants bring leprosy and tuberculosis" and other such pearls of "wisdom" -- and many of the anti-immigration commenters who read this blog! You speak like such ignoramuses it's beyond shameful.

ultima said...

Let's have similar questions addressed to Rep. Tom Tancredo, Sen Jeffries, and Frosty Wooldridge. Share the above misconceptions with them in advance so they can see what the other side had to say.

ultima said...

I have made a positive suggestion regarding the health care for foreign workers. I also believe it is imperative that we provide their children with an education. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking they are paying anywhere near the actual cost of that education. If they live 11 to an apartment or house trailer, their indirect property taxes per capita will not come close to even the average of what other taxpayers pay.

ultima said...

"As is usual, Q&As show opinion, and we as readers make waht we will of it, as an opinion, and not as fact."

I don't believe that to be true generally. Businesses use Q&As all the time to convey factual information to their patrons. The responder did not once say, "In my opinion..." You need evidence to refute myths not opinion.

ultima said...

"Also, why deny children of undocumented immigrants an education? Must they suffer a life "under the table" simply because their parents made an illegal decision to move to the USA?

And do we really want to leave sick undocumented workers on the street?

Compassionate conservatives, my ass."

See my solution below. Yea, bleeding heart liberals!

Anonymous said...

We know about the agriculture sector, but it’s also construction, and other low-wage jobs.

Since when is construction a low-wage job? Only since illegals came en masse and made it one. Twenty, 15 years ago construction was a high-wage job.

Anonymous said...

A: Of course, if they could come in legally they would, but that option doesn’t exist. You have to understand it’s not an easy choice to make to cross the desert, especially with young ones, risking your life. They are fleeing economic and political devastation and persecution. They want a better life just as all generations of immigrants to the U.S. have wanted. If they could come in legally, they would. If the Ellis Island system would stlill exist, all these people would absolutely have legal status.

Absolutely not an "arguement." There is no such thing as a "human right" to be an American. The US belongs to the legal citizens whose ancestors built it up and who have paid taxes to support its infrastructure and for social services for 10, 20, 30 years. This is like me saying that I would like to live in Buckingham Palace, but can't because the nasty old British government only lets the Queen live there, so therefore I am "forced" to move into the Palace illegally! The US is our homeland, and we have the right to decide who gets into our country, and who doesnt, just like MEXICO has the right to make the same decision. This is not an argument and I wonder why you pro-illegals keep repeating it as if it is; you are basically arguing that the US is not a sovereign state, which understandbly, upsets the majority of Americans quite a bit. Mexico is the 12th richest country in the world, so if you want ot argue that people have a "right" to immigrate to the US based on "need", then 900 million black Africans are standing in line in front of you!

Anonymous said...

A: People think immigrants are taking up all the room in the ERs and getting benefits US citizens don’t. The federal government basically is allowing K-12 education for anybody living in the country. It’s good for everyone to keep kids schools. Similarly, ER care should be available for everyone, so this is why immigrants are allowed there regardless of their immigration status. This is misleading in a way because most undocumented immigrants get no public benefits, no welfare, no food stamps—they certainly don’t get health care (no preventative or pre-natal care) so they rely on emrgency care. The use of ER services by undocumented immigrants is very small compared to the per capita use by the general population.

Again, this is not an argument, simply an emotional appeal to non-reason. Public school education for illegal children is not "free" -- it is paid for by native-born, law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens. And we native-born law-abiding tax-paying American citizens have no say in the matter since the Supreme Courty found a "constitutional right" for foreigners' children to be educated at our expense. We literally have taxation without representation. On the one hand we can't vote through our representatives to limit "free" services to illegals and on the other hand, we have no say in how many come in to avail themselves of our "free" services. Again, this is taxation without representation -- a gross injustice to the American taxpayer, and one which we wouldn't have to bear if Mexico -- the 12th richest country in the world -- collected an adequate amount of taxes from its corrupt upper and upper-middle classes. Why should Mr. and Mrs. Joe Average America, struggling to support two kids on 50K a year, be forced to assume a tax burden that rightfully belongs to such as Carlos Slim Helou, the SECOND RICHEST MAN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD? The same goes for all the "free" emergency room visits, the "free" infrastructure that the illegals use, and the "free" maternity care for their anchor babies. Again, what's so compassionate about forcing middle-class American citizens to support people who are rightfully the responsibility of the Mexican government and the ultra-rich Mexican billionaires?

Anonymous said...

A: Yes, another great misconception is that they don’t want to learn English, assimilate, and be Americans. This is simply not true. There’s huge waiting lists all over the country, especially in metropolitan areas, for ESL [English as a Second Language] classes. People want to learn English as it’s critically important. It’s not that people don’t’ want to, it’s that there’s not enough services for them. In every wave of immigration to this country, this is always an attack: newcomers don’t want to assimilate. But by the second generation, their kids are bilingual; by the third, English is the primary language. This was true of Italians, Germans, and absolutely true of Spanish-speaking immigrants today.

If this is true then why do Latino "advocacy" groups fight so hard against official English and other efforts for us to preserve our historical English-speaking culture. Recently the Governor of California told Hispanic immigrants they would learn English better if they stopped listening to Spanish language TV and radio and started listening to English-language TV and radio. The Latino "advocacy" groups blew up into a rage at this harmless and true suggestion. If they supported English why would they react in such a way? The truth is that many in the US now have a vested interest in making sure that Hispanic "immigrants" (i.e. illegal aliens) do not ever learn English or assimilate into our culture. Lional Sosa for instance made his millions on Spanish-language advertising. Where would the millions go if the illegals stopped speaking Spanish and started speaking English? The same for Telemundo and Univision TV reporters and crews, bilingual schoolteachers, and Spanish language translaters. They all have a vested interest in making sure that illegals and legal Hispanic immigrants alike don't ever learn English or accept that English is the language of this country. They want a bilingual country, plain as fact, which other Americans simply do not want.

Anonymous said...

A: [The] former chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, said that immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—pay more than their fair share in taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay federal income tax but don’t get any of the benefits a regular tax payer does. These people don’t get tax refunds nor are they granted welfare, food stamps, and other federal benefits.

Other studies have shown a different picture. For example, 50 percent of the economy of LA is now "cash only." Obviously that is illegals working under the table. In addition do you really think that all the illegals who sell corn or oranges from pushcarts, sell trinkets on the street etc - do you really think they collect sales tax or pay business permit fees or pay income tax on their earnings? Of course not.

Anonymous said...

http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief8/

Anonymous said...

As an American citizen, I hear a great deal about illegal immigration with little to no action. I am asking you to March & Ride for your country.

When: Sunday November 4, 2007. 11am
Where: Your state capital building and NBC news stations.
What to do: March at their doorsteps, make your motorcycles heard, call radio stations, news stations - spread the word!

Tell them to close the border now! Let only those with papers cross. We can do this, put troops around our nations’ boarders. We have a national guard, demand your governor, senators, and congressional representatives put guardsmen from each state on the boarders. Aid the existing boarder patrol and lock it down. Next, we can deal with those who have already passed illegally. Send your message! Don’t let them say no or it will cost us money –American citizens are paying the taxes already.

Tell them they have twelve months before election day. No smear campaigns – Only campaigns that focus on Americans security at home.

Alabama –
Montgomery Capital building

Mobile: WPMI-TV
6610 Azalea Rd.
Mobile, AL
36609


Alaska –
Juneau Capital Building

Anchorage: KTUU-TV
701 E. Tudor Rd.
Suite 220
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99503

Arizona –
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85004

Arkansas –
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Rogers: KNWA, NBC 51
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72756

California –
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Los Angeles: KNBC-TV
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Los Angeles, CA
91505

Colorado –
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Colorado Springs / Pueblo: KOAA-TV
2200 7th Ave.
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81003


Connecticut –
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Hartford: WVIT
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06110

Delaware –
Dover Capital Building

Florida –
Tallahassee Capital Building

Tampa: WFLA-TV
905 Jackson St.
Tampa, FL
33602

Georgia –
Atlanta Capital Building

Savannah: WSAV-TV
1430 East Victory Dr.
Savannah, GA
31404

Hawaii –
Honolulu Capital Building
Idaho
Boise Capital Building

Illinois
Springfield Capital Building

Chicago: WMAQ
454 N. Columbus Dr.
Chicago, IL
60611

Indiana –
Indianapolis Capital Building

Iowa –
Des Moines Capital Building

Kansas –
Topeka Capital Building

Kentucky –
Frankfort Capital Building

Louisiana –
Baton Rouge Capital Building

Maine –
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Maryland –
Annapolis Capital Building

Massachusetts –
Boston Capital Building

Michigan –
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Minnesota –
St. Paul Capital Building

Mississippi –
Jackson Capital Building

Missouri –
Jefferson City Capital Building

Montana –
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Nebraska –
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Nevada –
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Las Vegas: KVBC
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89101

Reno: KRNV
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Reno, NV
89502

New Hampshire –
Concord Capital Building

New Jersey –
Trenton Capital Building

New Mexico –
Santa Fe Capital Building

New York –
Albany Capital Building

North Carolina –
Raleigh Capital Building

North Dakota –
Bismarck Capital Building
Ohio –
Columbus Capital Building

Cincinnati: WLWT
1700 Young St.
Cincinnati, OH
45210

Oklahoma –
Oklahoma City Capital Building

Oregon –
Salem Capital Building

Portland: KGW
1501 Southwest Jefferson St.
Portland, Or

Pennsylvania –
Harrisburg Capital Building

Philadelphia: WCAU
City Ave. & Monument Rd.
Philadelphia, PA
19131

Rhode Island –
Providence Capital Building

South Carolina –
Columbia Capital Building

South Dakota –
Pierre Capital Building

Tennessee –
Nashville Capital Building

Texas –
Austin Capital Building
New Mexico - Las Cruces: KLSB-TV
801 North Oregon Street
El Paso, TX
79902

KXAN-TV
908 W. Martin Luther King.
Austin, Tx

Utah –
Salt Lake City Capital Building

Vermont –
Montpelier Capital Building

Virginia –
Richmond Capital Building

Washington –
Olympia Capital Building

Milwaukee: WTMJ-TV
720 East Capital Dr.
Milwaukee, WI
53212

West Virginia –
Charleston Capital Building

Wisconsin –
Madison Capital Building

Wyoming –
Cheyenne Capital Building

ultima said...

Dani, you solicited questions for the next round of Q&As but I couldn't find any place to post them other than as a comment to an irrelevant topic on the blog or here so here goes:

1. Unfettered population growth is due almost entirely to legal immigrants, illegal aliens, their progeny and their higher fertility rates. Why has this issue been entirely absent from the discussion of immigration reform?

2. Given the present flood of immigrant and illegal aliens and the threat of an immigration reform that would vastly increase the inflow of the foreign-born, what do you think America will be like 50 or 100 years from now?

3. If we are struggling to do our share of controlling greenhouse gases, is there any chance that we can succeed solely with technical measures if we add 200 million to our population before the end of this century? (200 million more people will add 4 trillion metric tons of carbon pollutants to the atmosphere.)

4. How will 200 million more people affect the environment, the extinction of species, the depletion of natural resources, ground and air traffic congestion, the demand for petroleum, water, and power? Is this something we should try to avoid?

5. The growth of our economy is based on population growth. Is this sustainable? Should we be looking for a way to stabilize our population while bringing our economy into a soft landing?

6. Can finite resources be spread over an increasing number of people without affecting the quality of life?

7. Should we have a national objective of a stable population?

8. How should population growth affect our immigration policies?

9. Is there a solution to the immigration conundrum without either mass legalization or mass deportation?

10. Can physical barriers, electronic and aerial surveillance, increased numbers of border patrol agents, and improved infrastructure stop illegal immigration by themselves or are strict sanctions for illegals in the interior and for employers essential to secure borders?

11. Should voluntary deportation be allowed once an illegal has been apprehended knowing that self-deporters can return immediately with impunity?

12. What criteria should we have for appeals of deportation orders?

13. What limits, time and otherwise, should be put on the appeal process?

14. Do immigrants and illegals depress wages and displace citizen workers?

15. Is support of foreigners and foreign govenments a form of disloyalty?

16. Why does any citizen place loyalty to foreigners and foreign governments ahead of loyalty to their fellow citizens and to the national interest?

17. Why do citizens support illegals?

18. In the long run will illegals convert the U.S. into Mexico Norte with all the same problem they fled Mexico to escape?

19. How appropos is the term Mexifornia for California now and in the future indicated by the current trend?

20. Is it legitimate for citizens to object to the use of taxpayer funds to pay for the delivery of babies from illegal mothers?

21. Would it be possible to negotiate a cost sharing arrangement with Mexico for the construction of obstetrical and triage hospitals south of the border where all who appear at the border crossings and all illegals would be require to go for treatment ?

22. Should we change our policies regarding the admission of pregnant women even for day work?

23. Is federal legislation required to prohibit the admission of commuting foreign nationals into U.S. public schools without full reimbursement of costs? Should federal funds be denied for any school district that fails to have a strict identification process that assure all such students are American citizens?

24. Should employers be required to provide full family health care insurance coverage for their foreign workers?

25. Should federal legislation require hospitals and emergency rooms to bill employers for any unpaid costs of health care provided to foreign workers?

26. What process should we impose on employers who wish to hire foreign workers? What standards of advertising, wages offers, etc. must be met? What proof must be offered? What should be the role of state employment offices in this process?

27. Why is comprehensive reform considered by some to be the only solution? Why not a piecemeals process that requires concrete results before the next step is taken?

28. Is there a way to meet the legitimate labor needs of America without endorsing arbitrary immigation increases or the numbers already here?

29 Should all noncitizens have biometric IDs that specify the type of work they were admitted to do?

30 . Is it feasible to use private enterprise to expedite necessary repatriations at no cost to the govenment?

ultima said...

"I'm an immigrant who took the citizenship oath last December. I've been through the system. From my experience, the immigration system works if you decide to follow the rules. Before I immigrated, I never overstayed my student or tourist visas. When I decided to immigrate, I paid the fees, had a physical, was re-immunized against all those childhood diseases (including the oral polio medication), had a criminal record check in my country of birth, an interview in the US Embassy, and paid the required fee. I also had to prove that I had sufficient funds to support myself for a period of 5 years, and promise that I would not be a burden on the US people by agreeing not to apply for welfare (yes, this is true!) After fulfilling the residency period, I applied for citizenship, paid the fee, was finger printed (for the 4th time), had an FBI background check, passed the English language test (required even though my first language is English), passed the US history test, and interviewed for suitability by the INS/BCIS. I gladly did this. I followed he rules and everything worked well during the entire process. In my experience, if you follow the rules, the immigration system works well.

The millions who chose to work outside the system now complain. I have no sympathy for them. They chose to enter this country outside the established system, and now demand special treatment to receive recognition under that same system.

I have nothing but contempt for the spineless, jelly-backed, gutless wonders in our Congress that have proposed this amnesty. Our Congress's capitulation to illegal residents over the views of US citizens devalues US citizenship. Most legal immigrants I know share these views.

Now that I am a registered voter, I'll be making my views known."

Davo.

Anonymous said...

Ultima, what;s the context of the quote you pasted above?

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